Irwin Zwilling my Rottisserie partner for 20 + years is Far and Away the BEST Fantasy Baseball analyst in pure English( without Sabremetrics) I have ever met..Part of his wonder is that his comments are not always the obvious! Read Zwilling's thoughts about Pedro Martinez:

PEDRO LEAKING OIL?

The once power pitcher Pedro Martinez is now throwing junk and getting away with it. Don’t get me wrong he can still get his fastball over 90 but not on a consistent basis. The movement on his pitches come from his long fingers, however when he takes his foot off the peddle and throws the pitch 82-86 the ball will move more. The only problem here is he can’t throw it where he wants. This only means one thing; hitters will catch on and take the pitch for a ball and wait till Pedro comes in with his occasional fastball. This repertoire cannot go for a long period of time. Add this up and you find he becomes the perfect closer. It is possible and it might happen sooner than you think. There is a market for Wagner, the same guy who fades at the end of every season. Let me know what you think!

Lenny..Zwilling wants your comments!! PLEASE Tell him he is right or Off the wall in your opinion..get ready for debate!! LOL

I really need imput please..thanks Lenny

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Bobby Paikatt   | 99.236.247.xxx | 2008-03-26 10:04:16 Wagner will be fine...he didn't collapse, the METS did. Pedro is fine as a starter, with Johan in the mix, it takes the pressure off of the entire staff. Reply | Quote 0   0

Irwin Zwilling   | 64.12.116.xxx | 2008-03-26 10:09:37 Sorry Bobby; Wagner did collapse last year, in fact Randolph hesitated using him in Sept. Look it up Reply | Quote 1   0

Paul Greco   | 67.99.43.xxx | 2008-03-26 10:13:34 The LEGEND returns!!! Reply | Quote 0   0

Sean in DC   | 206.181.226.xxx | 2008-03-26 14:27:45 I cant think of someone who better fits the classic Intimidation mindset of a closer, except for roger clemens. I am surprised that it hasnt been mentioned earlier for pedro or clemens. Reply | Quote 0   0

Wayne Provost   | 68.118.254.xxx | 2008-03-26 14:28:50 Pedro's to fragile to be a closer...he can't pitch back-to-back days... Reply | Quote 0   0

Wayne Provost   | 68.118.254.xxx | 2008-03-26 14:30:06 Pedro's to fragile to pitch back-to-back days...he's not gonna close... Reply | Quote 0   0

Irwin Zwilling   | 64.12.116.xxx | 2008-03-26 15:00:37 Wayne, who is to say what fragile is. If Pedro were to become a reliever then "the end is near". Fear is one of the great motvators in sports, and as a result you can play through it. Did you ever wonder how football players bounce back after major injuries or how quarterbacks play with broken bones? Well it is because of short careers and less games. they are scared to death that someone steps in and takes their job. Don't reduce it to "fragile" it just won't apply if he can't succeed as a starter Reply | Quote 0   0

Jake M. - Willie on Billy   | 208.252.142.xxx | 2008-03-26 15:48:31 Oddly, Billy only issued 2 walks in 10 September '07 appearances, as opposed to 8 in 13 August appearances. His K rate did seem to drop in both months however. Regardless, Pedro does not strike me as the type to buy into a salary cut, let alone a change of role. Let's assume both players' performance holds up to Zwill's model above, Pedro agrees to a closer's role at around the same salary and doesn't break down any worse than Wagner, and the team is able to trade Wagner for some kind of serviceable starter. The Mets may be better off in performance, but at what cost? Pedro gets $11 mil in 08, whereas Wagner gets $10.5 mil in '08 and '09 with an $8 mil club option for 2010. Given the market, I am not sure how far $29 mil over 3 years will go and I suspect Pedro would do just as well for himself, if not better, as either a starter or closer elsewhere. Here is my thought. If they can't sign Pedro at a value and deal with whatever performance issues may come, they may be better off let... Reply | Quote 0   0

Irwin Zwilling   | 64.12.116.xxx | 2008-03-26 16:34:54 real good input here, however this is NY not KC nobody cares about money and tweaking of salaries. Keep in mind that Santana wasn't in the cross hairs for this year.Focus on the possibility of him being a reliever and the fact that there are people that are drafting him at full value to be a starter. If you buy into this possibility he is not a good choice for a fantasy baseball team. Reply | Quote 0   0

Jake M. - $$$   | 208.252.142.xxx | 2008-03-26 17:49:17 Everyone cares about money, it's just a matter of how much. That had nothing to do with the delays on the Santana deal? Plus, I can image some fans might not like to see Pedro walk and that would be a convenient excuse. If we are talking about Pedro's fantasy draft value, his ADP for a 5x5 mixed league is 158 right now. Wagner's is 93. If Pedro performs as well or better as a closer it would be hard to complain about his value there. I can only assume Brett Myers was ranked quite a bit higher when he took over as closer last year than Pedro is now. Myers' injuries pretty much sunk him for me, but I don't believe this would be the same situation. Reply | Quote 0   0

Jake M. - Rest   | 208.252.142.xxx | 2008-03-26 17:39:49 ...letting him walk. They could look for a value closer (or set up man and let him or Heilman close for about $1-2 mil) and put the savings along with Pedro's money toward a stud starter, depth, and/or to cover some of Wagner's salary as part of a trade. Either way, the Mets are going to be left holding the bag with Wagner's salary. Given the adage "anyone can close", this option makes the most sense to me, the layman GM. Reply | Quote 0   0

Wayne Provost   | 68.118.254.xxx | 2008-03-26 18:39:52 Irwin, I've coached in high school and college. I won't pretend to be a professional. But I do know it's harder to bounce back from throwing hard almost every day than every 5th day. And that xperiance is from dealing with young healthy kids. Pedro has much more wear and tear than a young kid..."Nuf Ced. Reply | Quote 0   0

Wayne Provost   | 68.118.254.xxx | 2008-03-26 18:41:36 Irwin, don't compare football to baseball... Reply | Quote 0   0

Mark Stevens   | 24.137.83.xxx | 2008-03-26 22:26:45 Say didn't Smoltz close for a few years after major arm surgery and was pretty syccessful? Becoming a closer may actually prolong Pedro's career. See also Eckersley, Isringhausen, Dave Rigetti .... makes sense to me. Reply | Quote 0   0

Wayne Provost   | 24.183.177.xxx | 2008-03-27 05:46:25 Smoltz, Eck, etc. didn't lose the velocity Pedro did as the result of the surgery. Martinez hasn't bounced back as well. Pedro needs to be dealt with kid gloves. Reply | Quote 0   0

Irwin Zwilling   | 205.188.116.xxx | 2008-03-27 09:52:41 Wayne- Just catching up. I disagree with you on 95% of what you have said. If Pedro has success as a starter it will be as a result of his arm speed coming back on a steady basis otherwise the mets will have no choice but to reinvent the wheel. By the way I can compare football to baseball because it is a "state of mind". Athletes can play through pain especially if their career is on the line. Entirely a different topic. Wayne bring it on; this can be proven many times over. Where does he fit best starter or reliever? Ability (not money)will dictate Reply | Quote 0   0

BorisfromDownunder   | 58.160.161.xxx | 2008-03-27 10:19:40 Wayne, your comment "Pedro's to fragile to pitch back-to-back days" to me is interesting. I am a Cub fan, and a guy who has been more than fragile has just been named the closer in Chicago - Mr. Kerry Wood. Admittedly he hasn't proven he can do the job yet, however the Cub heirarchy must believe he can do it. So why not Pedro? Interesting stuff Irwin! Reply | Quote 0   0

Jake M. - WTF?   | 208.252.142.xxx | 2008-03-27 17:20:05 This debate is all over the place and it seems like an argument just for argument's sake. Reply | Quote 0   0

Wayne Provost   | 97.81.34.xxx | 2008-03-27 21:51:01 Stated my opinion based on personal xperience..."Nuf Ced... Reply | Quote 0   0

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